By Richard Mason
Professor Gorker has taught film related classes at CHC since 2017. Reflecting on her position, I asked her about Gen Z and students’ relationship with film. This interview is a sequel of sorts to an article I did on asking random students about theater-going. Towards the end of the interview neither of us remembered the name of this one particular movie, that film is Call Me By Your Name.
Richard: Do you think students have a varied taste in film?
Gorker : It’s hard to say… What I hear students sharing that they’re most excited about ranges from- I think coming of age films are really popular for folks of this age… I feel when they talk about coming of age films that they’ve seen and re-seen over and over again, they feel really strongly about them. Horror, I think there’s genres that they’re really drawn to and they would include I think horror, thrillers, not so much romantic comedies, coming of age films. Anime, anime is huge… because that’s like a whole world I’m unfamiliar with. I think it follows the sort of genre of the kind of serial heroic narrative that we see a lot with the more, what do we call this? This kind of Mavel- you name it, what was it called?
Richard: I used the word franchise.
Gorker: Right the kind of serial franchise. It kind of started with Star Wars which was really epic filmmaking at the time believe it or not… That’s what I think students seem to be the most excited about. Oh, and also sports biopic films. I mean we have such a big community of athletes at Griffin Nation. And I think the films that really cite a lot are like school of hard knocks and these kind of again, they fall into the coming of age film I think but with a sports theme.
Richard: What do you think students desire from the films they see.
Gorker: Ah the same thing we all desire. Like a really compelling character. I think a plot that challenges them- but also challenges them and doesn’t bore them, isn’t predictable… You know the hero’s journey and a lot of these classic films is still a kind of brilliant formula, and unlikely protagonist… character transformations I think are really powerful for them. And like the underdog, I think an underdog character is one that folks can cling to and identify with, especially of a certain age.
Richard: In a small batch of student interviews I did, horror was the most popular genre. Has this held true for all past generations?
Gorker: Yeah, I think there’s something really provocative and exciting about horror that we can all appreciate. I think one is the inherent like genius of sound design that happens in all horror films that student probably respond to unconsciously. And then I think there’s some real kind of interesting- I see this emerging as like female body horror films, films like women are both the object and the subject of some kind of self-empowerment… And that’s such an interesting kind of paradox, so they’re like hyper-patriarchal, but then also they’re kind of feminist in a certain way. They proved to be multi-dimensional in what they’re talking about, right? Whether they’re like thinly or not so thinly veiled satire of popular culture. Relationships to gruesome, morbid, visibly secret… It’s a rich genre, that even when I mean we see so many remakes of remakes of remakes… then the variations on international-internationally produced versions have their own kind of sequels and remakes.
Richard: Sequels also came up in my interviews, is the sequel stigma dead nowadays?
Gorker: How do you mean?
Richard: Like, I think within- probably early online film culture, there was sort of a- sequels are bad, like it’s always the first movie’s good and now that franchises are so popular, so popular to gen z, that kind of concept feels lost. Like the sequel feels essential as no longer straight to dvd- like nonsense or a cash grab. People are like, well you need to see the sequel. That’s sort of what I was building on. I think there’s sort of a lost perception now.
Gorker: I think the sequel for film, is what happened with the parallel of serial and television. We’re never done with episode one and then the same thing happens with like micro narratives, right? They’re so short, but you need to kind of know what happens. So, what they’re doing is just like segmenting the story. Right, I mean it’s also a money grab- You were kind of saying that the franchises sort of started that phenomena in a way like the story is too long- and the narrative is threaded- and now we have this opportunity to follow all of the characters of interest who maybe were marginalized in one episode, or serial, or one kind of season… And we get to explore their narrative. You know I’d like to think in a rich way. This allows us to kind of shine- instead of like spotlight thinking- we talked about spotlight and lantern thinking this morning we were dropping off our kids. And how like children have this lantern view, where they’re kind of scanning, and that why they are always late to school because they’re always like, the way that move is like they’re always scanning and looking- and parents are like spotlighted- so they just like have one direct goal and they want to get there… To use this analogy, in this case maybe, what we’re doing is kind of throwing a lantern on all of the characters- and not just like spotlighting one kind of superhero and then the sequel… the sequel allows for marginalized voices to have their own kind of spin-off and show, right? And that’s a good thing.- Like Wanda- was it like- I don’t who made that, it’s on Disney, right?
Richard: Yeah.
Gorker: And then it’s a female-led character, kind of exciting- and then the spin-off of the sequel like Agatha. Who’s like another witch- another kind of story who’s a fascinating character who we don’t know enough about. So in some ways it gives us this kind of like fun opportunity. I mean, maybe sequels were bad at a certain point- like did they get that reputation because they weren’t living up to the kind of narrative complexity- of this more contemporary generation of writers- who are actually kind of delivering more. I mean do you think so- that they’re delivering interesting stories that worth the time for the sequel?
Richard: I’m trying to think of it now and I’m being proven wrong by Gladiator II, but I feel like a lot of like 21st century, 2000’s epic popular films, kind of just sit on their own, where I think in the past with the sort of endless horror sequels and maybe that’s were it’s kind of coming from. Or in the case of remakes, like there was a fatigue there because it was revisiting, instead of really extending the life support or life line of a character.
Richard: It’s like the last question. Is it a new phenomenon that franchises, studios, and distributors have fandoms?
Gorker: Oh that’s so interesting. I think- A24- is a fascinating phenomena, because they make offbeat movies and they work in a really creative way. They’re really independent, and they work with really independent filmmakers- they’re willing to take risks with distribution models, and production models too… They both produce and distribute. One of their last films that they distributed, I think it’s called Sing Sing, look it up if you haven’t heard of it- and it’s amazing because it combines, you know narrative, but it stars Coleman Domingo- and he worked with prisoners at sing-sing like in this prison. And they made a film together and everybody that worked on the film instead of a like straight payout, like you get paid for this job, they all got a percentage of the film through distribution and through production, which is a really different way of thinking… which is a kind of like amazing breakthrough for traditional kind of hyper-capitalist practices. So that’s cool you know, and they’re popular enough, successful enough that they can kind of trailblaze a little bit with some of their practices. I mean what, Marvel vs DC is that like, who are they? I don’t, I don’t know things. You know? I mean there’s also like the Lucas world, right? -Like Star Wars owned now by Disney.
Richard: I was thinking of- like tv spin-offs. In the past of like- Indiana Jones. There was like a TV series of Young Indiana Jones, but, like, an hour-long special as a child, I feel like that was detached in popularity where it wasn’t like a necessary text. People weren’t really raving about it. It’s kind of hard to find today. I got a few at the library when I was younger, like, the vhs’s. So, I’ve seen a few of them. Yeah, but I think now with the franchise. You have to see so and so- to understand the whole story with like the Star Wars stuff on Disney Plus, it’s all interconnected.
Gorker: Yes.
Richard: And assume it’s eventually going to tie into films.
Gorker: Right.
Richard: Kind of like, what they’re building up to, I’m guessing. Like Grogu whatever- The baby Yoda movie.
Gorker: Oh yeah right- No, I feel like I can’t even watch any of the Star Wars movies cuz I’m so far behind on all of the weird spin-offs, and like, the Mandalorian. So, there’s like, the thing that’s on TV, the one that’s in the movie. There there’s this weird transmedia thing that’s happening. Gosh, and then probably social media and like me and memes. Right? Like memes are responsible for the success of so many summer movies, right? Like “Bourbon Hopper”- Barbinheimer- I said it wrong. But um, It’s almost like they like the imagery. More than the movie kind of itself. So- there’s that kind of phenomena where it’s like it’s fun to riff on it. It’s like I think it’s a fragmentation thing and I think that that’s where we are. We can like it a little bit and that’s enough and follow the whole thing. What we maybe remain with is like this fragment of a social media post, or a memory from a scene in the film or something, right? I mean, I think it’s all this kind of like, weird fractured threaded, spun out stories. And what do we really kind of walk away with? Because they’re so in some ways they’re like so disposable, you know, those They’re so satisfying, and like, you know you like laugh and then you go to sleep, you know? And then you forget about it and you’re like that was sort of funny but they’re not. Um, I don’t know they’re not meant to make you think deeply about things. Right? I mean can you feel deeply when you watch some of these films? I think, in my experience right now.
Richard: Do you think star power matters to gen z and CHC students?
Gorker: Gosh, I don’t know. I am. Like, I really don’t know this answer. Um, I think some of them like, Taylor Swift?
Richard: [Laughing]
Gorker: That’s not the question- that’s not a good answer-
Richard: But I think you’re saying no?
Gorker: I don’t know. Like you mean like actors, like famous actors?
Richard: Yeah-
Gorker: Okay like Ryan Gosling yeah- no idea I have no idea I’m like the worst person to ask. Okay.
Richard: I feel like the specific- I’ve been pondering in terms of- Does the current slate of leading men and women really matter to me- in terms of the same way I care about a De Niro or Harrison Ford.
Gorker: I think each student is really different. I want to say like from my experience, I think there’s certain- I think certain students gravitate towards- they all have a favorite actor, and it may not be a star like, okay, Denzel Washington. He’s been in everything that every gen Z person has probably seen their whole lives. So, in that way they’re like a familiar star- is that what you mean like a comfort star or do you mean like a rising star?
Richard: I mean just in general like kind of big name actor, I guess- mattering to like our generation because I think we’re not magazine readers- the generation of fan content and random people talking online. So I think making a star is harder for us or sometimes, it feels forced when it happens. Because when I was writing this -I saw twisters and the big thing was that Glenn Powell was in it and was being marketed as the next Tom Cruise. Tom Cruise is pictured with him a lot. He’s like mentoring him. And to me, personally, he is not Tom Cruise, right? Like, I don’t see it. I think gen Z doesn’t really care. I think Millennials latch on to him more.
Gorker: Wait a minute. What about Timothy chalamet? He’s the closest thing to little star because he’s in everything. Yeah, he’s in every movie that’s coming out. Yeah, it’s almost like a meme, like, you could just put Timothy’s face on every single, you know, whether it’s in a bikini or a tuxedo or like he’s the Joker, but he’s also could be the But he could be in Dune, but he’s also He’s also in like a different. He’s in like Luca Guadagnino’s film. Like what’s that? Sweet- one coming-of-age movie.
Richard: Is it the cannibal movie?
Gorker: No. But he’s also in a cannibal one right?- I think. No, it was the very first coming of age like-
Richard: With Steve Carell? In a movie where he’s like a younger guy with him and it’s like-
Gorker: It’s so important. No, it’s like a different guy, but they’re in Italy and-
Richard: Oh that movie. Oh my God yeah I know what you’re talking about.
Gorker: -But, you know, so for him like- he has a lot of range and whether or not he has like star power. I think he’s, he’s so memeable, yeah. So whether or not you guys- your generation made him a star or not. I think he’s- the equivalent of a kind of contemporary starboy because he’s just in so much- he’s just so prolific.
Richard: I forgot he existed.
Gorker: How about that.
Richard: I like remember reading a pretty lengthy interview with him? And then like watching him and Scorsese talk for like- I think some magazine and I’m entertained by him. But I definitely realized because I don’t have an attachment to Dune- And I don’t think a lot of what he’s done is quite my cup of tea, that it kind of just like gets lost.
Gorker: Yeah.
Richard: Like he is still really active like that Bob Dylan movie is coming out like fairly soon. Yeah. That is range in terms of like he’s the biopic guy he’s- an action star, he’s in queer romance movies.
